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Wide-Eyed Apprentice
 
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/9/2008 10:29:31 PM
Posts: 5,
Visits: 38
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| On Aug 5 I won an eBay auction for what was described as a 1.35 CT diamond. The next day I get an email from the seller(Ken) saying that he was in Washington DC on business and would not be home for 4 days. He apologized for ending auction while he would be out of town and that he had the only keys to the lockbox or he would have had his wife ship diamond. On Aug 9 I get an email from his wife(Gail) saying that Ken had been in a car accident on his way to the airport and that he was in the hospital with a broken leg. She was going to DC to check on him. Aug 13 I get an email from Gail that lockbox keys had been overnighted to their 16 yr old son and that he would ship my diamond. I did receive a package on Aug 13 that was postmarked Aug 11. I was very excited to finally have my diamond but when I looked at it with my loupe it was scratched and the bottom point was chipped. Diamonds don't scratch. I took it to a local jeweler who tested it and told me that unfortunately it was not a diamond. I emailed the seller and Gail responded that her son had gone to the wrong security box and had sent the wrong stone. She said she and Ken would be home Aug 14 and she would correct mistake. On Aug 18 after hearing nothing for several days I get an email stating that after their investigation that they had sent a real diamond and that they were very upset that I would claim otherwise. I replied that the stone I received was not a diamond and that I would begin the remediation Process. I also called the phone # that eBay provided me. It was actually Ken's #. I left a message stating that he had not sent a real diamond. I left 3 phones for him to contact me at. I got a text message from him requesting my email and I sent it to him. He sent me a email suggesting that I file a claim with the post office. He told me to state that the package was empty when I got it and say that it appeared the package had been tampered with. I replied that his only communications with me should be through the channel provided through PayPal remediaton. He replied that I had heard the last from him. I have escalated my Paypal dispute to a claim and also disputed the charge through VISA. VISA asked me to fax the emails to them which I did. Is there anything else I can do at this time? Can I file charges with any lawenforcement agency against this guy? Any hope that this could go in my favor? Any advice would be appreciated. THANKS! Allen
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Wide-Eyed Apprentice
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/9/2008 10:29:31 PM
Posts: 5,
Visits: 38
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| To add to my above post the eBay item # was 320282214625 if you want to check the actual auction. Seller's feedback was good except for the 2 neutrals. If have made close to 150 purchases on eBay, including a car, and have never had the first problem. Any advice is appreciated. Allen
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Top Banana
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/11/2008 12:55:36 PM
Posts: 314,
Visits: 383
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First and foremost I would just concentrate on getting the money back. Insurance is the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer. Also, if you involve law enforcement that may curtail your refund.
You've done all the right things up to this point. Make sure to follow through with paypal and of course the issuing bank for the credit card that you used, just in case.
Wait on the law enforcement part until you get your money. Then once you have it, you can make that decision then. That's what I'd do.
As an ebay seller he's now NARU. Not sure if that has to do with this transaction or not, but make sure to stay on paypal and Visa until you have resolution.
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Wide-Eyed Apprentice
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/9/2008 10:29:31 PM
Posts: 5,
Visits: 38
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| Thanks for your reply! It is nice to have someone give some direction as it seems no one really cares or knows exactly what to do. Thanks for this forum. I have told numerous people about it. The NARU status has just occurred since Tuesday. Seller has until tomorrow 8/29/08 to reply to PayPal, and so far no reply. Of interest to me, on 8/13/08 I received an email from the PayPal Account Review Department asking if my eBay purchase on 8/05/08 had gone well. I replied that I had received a SNAD item. They sent a response telling me how to proceed. I wondered if something was suspicious to them? Recovering money is definitely my number 1 concern, but I don't see how that can happen even if PayPal and VISA see things in my favor. Here's hoping for the best for all who have been scamed!
Allen
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Top Banana
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 11/11/2008 12:55:36 PM
Posts: 314,
Visits: 383
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Well, the deal is that paypal will honor their buyer protection (provided you meet the requirements for it) but ONLY if it doesn't put them out of pocket for any amount. If paypal is able to get the money back, then you'll get the money back. However, the protection they offer is a joke because it's not really protection at all, really all it means is that THEY won't pocket the money in the transaction. But again, if they're out the money, so will you be (on that end). I like to think of paypal's protections as a, "fair weather friend".
Most credit card companies and banks are able to do chargebacks for you. In a nutshell, this means that your financial institution (usually after some investigating) will reverse the charges from wherever they went. Because their financial institution will operate by the same standards, they're required in many cases both by civil and criminal law to play ball and reverse the charges. Ultimately, this is how many people get large sums reversed as a financial institution working on your behalf with another financial institution makes it smooth, easy, and with less red tape.
Having said that, there is the possibility that if paypal cannot or will not get your money back and your bank does, at that point paypal might elect to bill you for the reversal. In some instances, even when paypal has found in favor of (say, in this instance) the buyer, if the only recourse for the funds to be returned is through chargebacks, paypal will bill them despite having ruled in their favor. Again, the fair weather friend ordeal.
In a nutshell, that is how it works. Paypal will first try to seize funds from the seller having found in your favor, and if that is unsuccessful they will attempt to go to the seller's related financial institutions where he withdrew the money to. If for whatever reason the bank doesn't play ball with them, then they do little else for you. When you get the chargeback, then they come after YOU.
It is easier however, for your bank to get the money back as opposed to paypal doing it. This is because paypal is only really a merchant and not a bonafide financial institution like a bank or a credit union, so where they fail often your bank will succeed, again at the cost of paypal trying to collect the money that they're out. edit; and to be clear, I'm talking about your bank getting the chargeback against paypal, not the seller's bank although that is a possibility but unlikely).
Keep us posted on what happens. Make sure to stay on top of it the whole time. If the entities involved aren't contacting you, then you contact them. Be wary of deadlines and timeframes that limit your ability to get recourse as the powers that be will often not hold your hand through the process or lay all of their cards on the table.
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Wide-Eyed Apprentice
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/9/2008 10:29:31 PM
Posts: 5,
Visits: 38
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| THANKS! Very, very helpful. But, it almost seems a deadend as far as getting my money back if PayPal turns around after the bank chargeback and takes the money from me. I am fairly certain that when the seller 's account is accessed by PayPal there will nothing there. If I understand the procedures PayPal will ask me to ship the CZ (fake diamond) to the seller. When he acknowledges receiving the shipment then PayPal will try to access his account for my refund. If he has no money to access and has the CZ in his possession I am wondering how not having the CZ in my possession will affect future legal action I may have to take against him. I do have a statement from the jeweler that the stone is a CZ. Also what if the seller refuses to accept the shipment or it is returned to me because the address is bogus. How does PayPal get their money back from me after the bank chargeback? The 8/29/08 seller's response deadline came and went and as far as I can tell there was no response from the seller. Many thanks for your help. I know your responses not only help me but also others who get on this forum looking for answers on how to deal with their deals gone bad. By the way my seller is from Dearborn MI, so if anyone knows of a good PI in that area let me know. I would like to confirm details in the seller's story. For instance if he was involved in an accident in DC, then there should be a police report of the accident. Also if he has a broken leg a PI should be able to confirm if he is currently in a cast. It mat be worth spending a little money now in case this moves into having to sue him. The more holes I can shoot into his story the better for me, I think. I apologize if I'm taking up too much time here. Allen
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Wide-Eyed Apprentice
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/9/2008 10:29:31 PM
Posts: 5,
Visits: 38
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| PayPal ruled in my favor today and credited me a whopping $200 out of the $4450 that I am out. They stated that the rest is due from the seller which they will try their best to collect. I guess it's on to the credit card bank for a chargeback which PayPal will turn around and come after me for. Allen
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